tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post112716223861629382..comments2024-03-27T12:53:27.221+00:00Comments on NIPC Law: Oracle Corporation's ApplicationJane Lamberthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14448574554083999342noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-5666402139860949432010-04-12T12:07:42.751+01:002010-04-12T12:07:42.751+01:00I have been visiting various blogs for my persuasi...I have been visiting various blogs for my <a href="http://www.usatermpapers.com/persuasive_essay.htm" rel="nofollow">persuasive essay</a> research. I have found your blog to be quite useful. Keep updating your blog with valuable information... RegardsTerm Papershttp://www.usatermpapers.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1144209725327930702006-04-05T05:02:00.000+01:002006-04-05T05:02:00.000+01:00The decision of Mr Justice Mann in the Macrossan c...The decision of Mr Justice Mann in the Macrossan case [2006] EWHC 705 (Ch) handed down on 3rd April 2006, appears to have significant implications for software patenting in the UK. The case concerned the patentability of an automated method of producing the documents necessary to incorporate a company. The system has been deployed on the internet since May 2003 at www.ukcorporator.co.uk.<BR/><BR/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1128166455964420602005-10-01T12:34:00.000+01:002005-10-01T12:34:00.000+01:00Oops again - I guess I should have read your *whol...Oops again - I guess I should have read your *whole* last post before replying.<BR/><BR/>Mind you, should we really have bad laws to avoid particular competitive disadvantages, despite those laws acting to reduce competition generally, or should we try to get other nations to adopt good laws and encourage fair competition generally?<BR/><BR/>And now I think I've missed my plane back to the real Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1128165572387181702005-10-01T12:19:00.000+01:002005-10-01T12:19:00.000+01:00"Since you post your comments in the middle of the..."Since you post your comments in the middle of the night..."<BR/><BR/>No - English, but with sleep disorders.<BR/><BR/>"... not so much the rejection of the application ..."<BR/><BR/>Yes, but I wanted to reply to a specific point and was suffering from awake-all-night-with-nothing-much-to-do syndrome.<BR/><BR/>My concerns about software patents include the fact that international companies just Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1128126158323787542005-10-01T01:22:00.000+01:002005-10-01T01:22:00.000+01:00No need to apologize. You are not abusing my blog ...No need to apologize. You are not abusing my blog at all. I am grateful to you for your insight.While I may know more about computing than some lawyers I certainly don't claim greater technical knowledge or experience of the ICT industry than you.<BR/><BR/>If you re-read my original post you will see that my crictism of the hearing officer's decision was not so much the rejection of the Jane Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14448574554083999342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1128123940716270092005-10-01T00:45:00.000+01:002005-10-01T00:45:00.000+01:00Oops - I think I need to clarify..."I think the te...Oops - I think I need to clarify...<BR/><BR/>"I think the term heuristic applies here because there is no perfect solution to the problem 'I want to encrypt some data'. The idea of how to encrypt is the key thing, not any specific implementation of that idea."<BR/><BR/>The implementation of RSA does not involve heuristics other than some mathematical heuristics for classifying numbers as prime/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1128121991787522822005-10-01T00:13:00.000+01:002005-10-01T00:13:00.000+01:00Sorry for dragging this out even more, and possibl...Sorry for dragging this out even more, and possibly abusing your blog, but I still felt the need to answer this...<BR/><BR/>"I fear that there would be much less (if any) incentive for a motor manufacturer to invest the millions needed to develop a computer controlled system for switching from petrol to electric power on my hybrid motor car if it could not look forward to a monopoly of that Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127976127218355912005-09-29T07:42:00.000+01:002005-09-29T07:42:00.000+01:00I commend your commitment and wish you well.As I s...I commend your commitment and wish you well.<BR/><BR/>As I said yesterday, my job is to advise and assist people on the law as it stands.<BR/><BR/>In my private capacity, I am an active member of a political party that combines social democracy with liberalism. I have published one article on an intellectual property issue from one my party's websites, but it was not specifically on software Jane Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14448574554083999342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127953627665380412005-09-29T01:27:00.000+01:002005-09-29T01:27:00.000+01:00"I fear that there would be much less (if any) inc..."I fear that there would be much less (if any) incentive for a motor manufacturer to invest the millions needed to develop a computer controlled system for switching from petrol to electric power on my hybrid motor car if it could not look forward to a monopoly of that system."<BR/><BR/>Indeed, and that is why patents on hardware are generally a good and fair thing. A patent on such a device Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127942595640555922005-09-28T22:23:00.000+01:002005-09-28T22:23:00.000+01:00Thanks. It is an interesting letter. I hope other ...Thanks. It is an interesting letter. I hope other visitors will read it.<BR/><BR/>I am not sure that the poor old Commissioner could do much. His job is to apply the law as made by the US federal legislature and interpreted by the courts.<BR/><BR/>If the law is to be rolled back to what ti was before Diamond v Diehrin the USA or VIACOM here it will require political action.<BR/><BR/>In view of Jane Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14448574554083999342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127941258123119942005-09-28T22:00:00.000+01:002005-09-28T22:00:00.000+01:00For an authoritative view I suggest reading what D...For an authoritative view I suggest reading what Donald Knuth has to say about algorithms and patenting:<BR/>http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/knuth-to-pto.txtAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127908685940792522005-09-28T12:58:00.000+01:002005-09-28T12:58:00.000+01:00Once again, thank you for expressing your views.Wh...Once again, thank you for expressing your views.<BR/><BR/>Whether you like it or not the law allows patents to be granted for some computer implemented inventions and has done in this continent at least for many years. My job is to advise and represent people who are affected by that law. <BR/><BR/>If you don't like the law as it stands, you have a perfect right to use all the political processesJane Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14448574554083999342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127902877508830962005-09-28T11:21:00.000+01:002005-09-28T11:21:00.000+01:00Well, we're clearly not getting anywhere here. As ...Well, we're clearly not getting anywhere here. As a programmer of 25 years I understand the issues and the technicalities of why copyright, when applied to an invention which is entirely written, is <I>at least</I> as good as a patent. <BR/><BR/>I also understand very clearly the extra power - far beyond what is granted in the physical world - that a patent gives. <BR/><BR/>And, I also understandAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127835351679645132005-09-27T16:35:00.000+01:002005-09-27T16:35:00.000+01:00Copyrights and patents do different things: - copy...Copyrights and patents do different things: <BR/>- copyrights prevent copying and other restricted acts but they confer no monopoly as such;<BR/>- patents prevent such acts as making, using, selling or importing anything that falls within the scope of one or more of the claims of the patent specification regardless of whether the infringement is intentional or not.<BR/><BR/>In fact, computer Jane Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14448574554083999342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127833744244423332005-09-27T16:09:00.000+01:002005-09-27T16:09:00.000+01:00Of course, copyright is actually already better th...Of course, copyright is actually already <B>better</B> than a patent in one very important way: it lasts much longer. Adding patents to this would make software far more strongly protected than other inventions.<BR/><BR/>Where are the balances for these extra protections?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127822797350440972005-09-27T13:06:00.000+01:002005-09-27T13:06:00.000+01:00The question is whether an invention that satisfie...<I>The question is whether an invention that satisfies all the other requirements of patentability - namely, novelty, inventiveness and utility - that is actuated by digital code rather than by purely mechanical means should be denied protection simply because it is implemented by software.</I><BR/><BR/>That is indeed the false question that we are being asked by the pro-patent lobby. It is falseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127804194378529732005-09-27T07:56:00.000+01:002005-09-27T07:56:00.000+01:00Many thanks to everyone who has already contribute...Many thanks to everyone who has already contributed to this debate.<BR/><BR/>First, on the status of TRIPS. The agreement is an Annexe to the WTO agreement which all member states of the WTO have ratified. The WTO agreement itself has fairly well developed dispute resolution and enforcement machinery. It would be good to reach consensus on issues where there is divergence. There is machinery for Jane Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14448574554083999342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127803958594041682005-09-27T07:52:00.000+01:002005-09-27T07:52:00.000+01:00"Should someone invent a new way of processing the..."Should someone invent a new way of processing these instructions, such as Transmeta's Crusoe chip, then by all means, that should be patentable"<BR/><BR/>Actually, in my opinion Crusoe is a bad example and it should not be patentable. It is very difficult to draw a line between hardware, software or a hybrid system. As far as I know, in Europe, at least in some countries, computer chips "as suchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127782345379558432005-09-27T01:52:00.000+01:002005-09-27T01:52:00.000+01:00"If I incline more towards one side that the other..."If I incline more towards one side that the other it is because of the requirement in art 27 (1) TRIPS that "patents should be available, and patent rights enjoyable without discrimination as to ... the firled of technology...""<BR/><BR/>Does Software belong to a "field of technology" in terms of patent law or more specific Trips. The answer is no. It would be useful to codify that common Trips Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127780705984557922005-09-27T01:25:00.000+01:002005-09-27T01:25:00.000+01:00First, thank you for your comments, and for provid...First, thank you for your comments, and for providing a forum for such discussion. <BR/><BR/>I cannot see your argument for software patents. Your falling back on 'any field of technology' misses the mark because the field of technology here is not 'software' but the binary logic that comprises the processor that is executing the software. <BR/><BR/>All processors do essentially the same thing, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127758830314496382005-09-26T19:20:00.000+01:002005-09-26T19:20:00.000+01:00The average man has too short arms to fly if he ju...The average man has too short arms to fly if he jumps off a building.<BR/><BR/>"This argument is attractive but it is hard to see how this reasoning can be upheld. If it is right, the[n] no man would ever fly unpowered by using his arms."<BR/><BR/>You are assuming the solution here. Just because you have a hammer, it does not mean that everything is a nail. The correct legal protection for Zethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02771104166303575498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127745486394636252005-09-26T15:38:00.000+01:002005-09-26T15:38:00.000+01:00According to the spirit of the (US) constitutional...According to the spirit of the (US) constitutional foundations of patent law (as I understand it), a valid patent on software would have to be a patent on the algorithm, not the result. However, this is not possible in the US, because it's fairly trivial to show that any algorithm is a mathematical formula - which isn't patentable.<BR/><BR/>I think it's a travesty of justice that, owing to the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127739433391082842005-09-26T13:57:00.000+01:002005-09-26T13:57:00.000+01:00I agree with all of the other posters here - a com...I agree with all of the other posters here - a computer program should not be patentable; my comparison would be the automobile itself: A particular class of program is like a particular type of vehicle - would it have been advantageous if the first person to build a car got a patent on it, leaving everyone else to build busses, taxis and trucks?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127602208050416392005-09-24T23:50:00.000+01:002005-09-24T23:50:00.000+01:00Yes, it's hard to see what the little man argument...Yes, it's hard to see what the little man argument has to do with anything since all computer programs are lists of instructions that a human could follow, albeit more slowly, in the same way as a computer. Introducing it simply showed that what Oracle was asking for a patent on is something that people have been doing for years. I've hand-translated TeX to HTML and vice versa myself.<BR/><BR/>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15652882.post-1127577755176556162005-09-24T17:02:00.000+01:002005-09-24T17:02:00.000+01:00I was more impressed by the little man argument. I...I was more impressed by the little man argument. I believe that this argument from Oracle should have been accepted - and the patent denied because of it. Little, large and average-sized people have been converting between document standards using various mental procedures for a very long time, and very likely using mental procedures similar (though far less formalised) to those covered by the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com